the law is the law. this notion that, well, you just don't care. >> then you won't say -- then the obama -- you would say the obama administration doesn't care about this woman, right? >> i am telling you that the law they passed and promoted is not working for average people. it's causing huge disruption and harm and anguish for these people. we ought to fix that. and one of the ways you can do it is not just say we don't care, damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. >> that's kind of what we're seeing happen, though. >> well, absolutely. >> i'm with you on that, both sides, sort of, there's so much partisan backdrop to the whole thing. i don't know if anyone's thinking about the actual individuals that are being affected by this. >> i disagree. we argued from the -- you're going to impact individuals. they said, listen, we're going to help 15% of the population and ruin it for 85. we said that upfront. said this is going to be -- >> and the democrats would say, you want the law to go by the wayside and no